Face-off legality

[cjlax]

I agree - the coach was WRONG!
Ray has it correct he can't rule on that alone and infact I think that this is not one of the legal 'stick legality checks'

Infact it is wrong - I was at a match the other week with 4 refs there (2 league refs) and this was called. the ball did get stuck in the same way, but it was not an illegal stick, as the back of the stick should not be checked.

The ''offending'' team should be warned the first time and then the second the team should be told not to use it.
However if a stick check is called for this, then the team who called the check will be awarded a Technical foul. As the official stick check does not include this check. A stick can be perfectly legal in every way.

On another note - Why did your Ref give the stick to their coach?!?! - Silly!

[fresher309]

the only way the stick is ruled illegal for having the ball stuck is if when placed in the pocket and the stick is then rotated horizontally left and right, then vertically. If the ball doesn't fall out of the pocket in any of the checks then it is an illegal stick, and u cant use it, and if called just after a goal, the goal is discounted. Basically it seems their coach got that one wrong

(obivously there are some measurement issues but i cant be bothered to go into those ones, if any of u are bothered, i think the ela website has a list of the rules, one of the sections list all the parts that are done in a stick check)

[DommoBath]

Our ref was quite inexperienced and I think he felt a bit intimidated by their coach...it didn't really affect the result, but I just wanted to know for future reference. Thanks again.

[cjlax]

Ahh well - as long as it didn't affect the result!

[Steely Dan]

I just wanted to clarify something based on what CJLAX wrote whereby:

a stick may have been pinched, but can still be legal.

according to the rule book

16.4 No stick may be tampered with in any way so as to give a player an advantage over his opponent.

While the stick may still fall within the dimension limits, and may also not withhold the ball technically this should be illegal.

My question is simply: Does this ever get called and would it ever get called? In particular if you use the same head for facing repeatedly it will warp, is this technically illegal?

[dmiddie]

Technically a stick should not be altered in any way. It is only the factory produced version which has been tested and approved. That would suggest that the age old pinching that goes on is in effect illegal, but you must also take account of the fact that a stick when used for face-off may eventually become illegal after extensive use! Now try adding all of that to a ref's problems!!! Many of the more recent heads are so pinched that any further pinching would render them illegal.

[cjlax]

Well if it says that in the rules then they must be law!
But I wouldn't suggest pinching a pre pinched head, eg a pulse or Evo pro.

However you're never going to get pulled for pinching a head which is still within the legal limits - This would be stupid!
Every single head is 'factory' pinched differently and the ref would have to prove that a head had been pinched more. This would involve knowing the dimentions of every single head. Even if the ref was to look this up it would take ages, detracting from the reason you're stood on the pitch - to play lacrosse.

Also how could they say that playing with a stick which is pinched (legal dimentions) gives an unfair advantage, but a stick which is pinched equally or more by the 'factory' doesn't mean the player has an unfair advantage?

But... the rule does say...'to give a player an advantage over his opponent...'
I would say that a player with a pinched (legal dimentions) warroir patriot, does not have an advantage over a 'factory' pinched brine Pulse!

[Hickey7]

i faced at Dublin Fest and Blues this year and am a bit of a heavy clamper using a Brine Clutch, they called the foul as soon as the head lifts from the ground with the ball stuck in the reverse of the net. like at one stage i rotated "180 to shov the other bloke out the way and to flick it to a team mate, but the rotation had the ball within the stick so was classed as a technical!

had a stick check called but it passed

cant find the link but anthony Kelly's F.O techniques on Youtube shows him racking in a "C" motion which would be illegal?

[Mr.Stanford]

You were probably called for withholding the ball from play. if you had the clamp and full control of the ball, then you turned 180, had a look around to see where your team mate is, that could easily be called as withholding.

Last season ref's were calling players who had control of the ball, and looked for the position of their team mate before raking the ball out. Regardless of how long that process took. As soon as you have control of the ball you should be making a movement to play the ball into the game.

That 'C' move shouldn't get called as withholding as long as the ball's not stuck in the back of the stick. It's only effective as a quick move designed to aid the fast break as it pulls the ball away from the opponents stick reducing the risk of it getting caught when pushing forward.

[Hickey7]

oooooo that clears it up!! hahah, need to start fast breaks a bit more then ! i thought that was the case but wasnt 100%.

*how not to face*....

[eww]

I was in America for a bit and i thought their rule concerning the ball getting stuck was the best i've seen yet. The face-off man could get the ball caught in the back of his stick i.e plunger and could even pick it up and run around with the ball in the back of his head but he was only allowed one chance to flip it into the normal side of the head. If he tried more than once then change of possession. In england the rule isn't fair on the face-off men that use the plunger.

[dblacklock]

Under the rules passed in Lahti Finland in Aug 2008 and came into effect in England in 2008, a ball stuck in a stick is now a technical foul (previously it was an immediate whistle and then a faceoff) Usually just an award to the opposing team, but could become time served if there is a simultaneous foul.

[Hickey7]

aw well i guess its fairer. . .