The Great Big Bad Durham Thread

[chippie]

however Lacrosse is a small sport, not many people who play it go to university (although its true this is changing) plus the problem we have is that kids need to have at least AAB in order to get in here, I imagine Durham is the same. "p.s. talk of Exeter following the Durham model....they are already in year 1 of it" hehe we could dream Chippie mate:). In the words of our coach "If I wanted to coach a group of Americans, why would I have come to England!" We do now have scholarship opportunities for male lacrosse players, as I imagine other University's will begin to do, but I think we missed out for next year in terms of UCAS, but as is the case with a lot of uni's there are a couple of rumours here and there but everyone in the south prem can breath a sigh of relief that the rumours stem from this side of the pond

i think you will find most players do go to uni, most of them are female.....also the biggest uptake for mens lax is at uni!

i guess i know more of whats going on at exeter....
durham year 1: brought in UDO (university development/coaching officers) and offered scholarships to (british) elite level players...
year 2: more scholarships open to all including overseas and a bigger lacrosse programme....
think they are in year 3 at mo

exeter year 1: brought in UDO (university development/coaching officers) and offered scholarships to elite level players...
year 2:........

p.s. dont necessarily have to go through UCAS

[Tommy88]

however Lacrosse is a small sport, not many people who play it go to university (although its true this is changing) plus the problem we have is that kids need to have at least AAB in order to get in here, I imagine Durham is the same. "p.s. talk of Exeter following the Durham model....they are already in year 1 of it" hehe we could dream Chippie mate:). In the words of our coach "If I wanted to coach a group of Americans, why would I have come to England!" We do now have scholarship opportunities for male lacrosse players, as I imagine other University's will begin to do, but I think we missed out for next year in terms of UCAS, but as is the case with a lot of uni's there are a couple of rumours here and there but everyone in the south prem can breath a sigh of relief that the rumours stem from this side of the pond

i think you will find most players do go to uni, most of them are female.....also the biggest uptake for mens lax is at uni!

i guess i know more of whats going on at exeter....
durham year 1: brought in UDO (university development/coaching officers) and offered scholarships to (british) elite level players...
year 2: more scholarships open to all including overseas and a bigger lacrosse programme....
think they are in year 3 at mo

exeter year 1: brought in UDO (university development/coaching officers) and offered scholarships to elite level players...
year 2:........

p.s. dont necessarily have to go through UCAS

I should have been more specific and said male. Still how many male lacrosse freshers were there around the country this year...we got 1, I think Bristol got 2, I imagine Sheffield got a few...Portsmouth got some. Still there are not many. I am interested to hear what you know about Exeter, but I am almost positive we have been given ONE scholarship, plus if last year was year 2 of Durham's program they got about 10 players on scholarship...now if our AU is going to bring over 10 new North American players next year to play lacrosse they are doing very well to keep it a secret from us! Plus I wont be here next year so that would be a bummer

[LPierce]

To be honest we've had about twenty freshers in each of the past two years, and though not all stay on we still have about 8 keep at it... It comes down to how you promote yourself I guess. I'd like to point out this is at Aberdeen which is a massive rugby university.

[Mr.Stanford]

The Durham Survival guide

Step 1: Say thank you for BUCS lacrosse. It's a privilege that's really quite new. Sheesh, you kids don't know how good you've got it!

Step 2: Say thank you for getting to play against people who actually know how to play, rather than people who think they know how to play.

Step 3: Swallow one MASSIVE man up pill

Step 4: Take your 30-0 thrashing like a man

Step 5: Discuss how to put together a training programme so next season the scoreline is 29-1


or.......

Step 1: Refuse to play Durham

Step 2: Graduate from uni

Step 3: Play SEMLA/NEMLA

Step 4: Start the same thread about Blues/Stockport because they have yanks or internationals playing for them

Step 5: Start playing Ultimate Frisbee, because their 'your kind of people'

[dalglish]

Step 4: Start the same thread about Blues/Stockport because they have yanks or internationals playing for them

Not sure the same thread would apply but In response to the above step 4 from Mr Stanford for the record Stockport have employed 1 LDO for the first time in many years and with regards to international players these are in the main all home grown and have come from Stockport'a Junior programme run by Mr G for many years ably assisted by some quality coaches. ( Baxter and Big Mac being the exceptions) so I don't really see his point, is it wrong to develop international standard players and use them for your own benefit.
As for Blues I don't know their situation but I'd be surprised if they have a large number of imports to call on and not sure how many Internationals they have.

It's no coincidence that the clubs with good junior programmes are inevitably the strongest teams, the success of Mersey, Cheadle, Stockport, Rochdale, Timperley, Wilmslow etc did not happen overnight, all have put a great deal of effort developing players from a very young age and they can't afford to employ more than 1 LDO in most cases. In years to come clubs will be enjoying the rewards for their hard work and no doubt there will be a shift in power, make no mistake Stockport, Mersey and Cheadle have not got where they are by importing players or by changing the squads each year.

[Tommy88]

Step 4: Start the same thread about Blues/Stockport because they have yanks or internationals playing for them

Not sure the same thread would apply but In response to the above step 4 from Mr Stanford for the record Stockport have employed 1 LDO for the first time in many years and with regards to international players these are in the main all home grown and have come from Stockport'a Junior programme run by Mr G for many years ably assisted by some quality coaches. ( Baxter and Big Mac being the exceptions) so I don't really see his point, is it wrong to develop international standard players and use them for your own benefit.
As for Blues I don't know their situation but I'd be surprised if they have a large number of imports to call on and not sure how many Internationals they have.

It's no coincidence that the clubs with good junior programmes are inevitably the strongest teams, the success of Mersey, Cheadle, Stockport, Rochdale, Timperley, Wilmslow etc did not happen overnight, all have put a great deal of effort developing players from a very young age and they can't afford to employ more than 1 LDO in most cases. In years to come clubs will be enjoying the rewards for their hard work and no doubt there will be a shift in power, make no mistake Stockport, Mersey and Cheadle have not got where they are by importing players or by changing the squads each year.

Yes, Finally!! can we please take Stockport out of this argument, I believe it seems to be the view of some people that they must have all these Imports to be as good as they are. Stockport are a phenomenal club who have got to where they are through hard work. In fact, I understand they have English players that have played NCAA, am I rite? What everyone is annoyed about is the fact that Durham are as good as they are because of post-grad's over on scholarships, not because of players they have developed (not to say the players they are developing are not good! Just that they most likely wouldn't be good enough to beat Hallam 29-0). Why would people start a thread about an English lacrosse club that had brought through some great talent that betters the national side and improves an already impressive NEMLA or SEMLA premiership.

[Mr.Stanford]

Talk about missing the point by a country mile.

The only reason I used their name was because they are the dominant northern team. This was not a dig at stockport, more of a compliment. I was taking the Michael out of some of the other people here who dislike Durham dominance.

[poopjohnson]

My main man Fuzzy Slippers has reported to me that Durham now trains with Ronny Coleman, ultimate American Power lifter. This is supremely unfair on so many levels. Fuzzy also reported to me that during training sessions it has been documented that the use of goat urine has been implemented for ultimate levels of hydration. While most people go blind from such an act, it appears the intense training from Ronny Coleman has thwarted any such happenings. I think the key issue we need to focus on when speaking about this travesty is the overall impact this has on the worm population in England as a whole. With the lasers and rockets flying around "wizzing" over these poor insects homes many are left wondering where to next? Will I have a home on this pitch after they play? You know the term coined for this type of shot "worm burner" is quite literal, singeing the moist exterior of the worms body. Even on astro turf and field turf the worm population still can harvest larvae, no place to hide. Truly a travesty, all this bickering over Win's and Losses where does that get us, the real issue at the hand the Worm population? Wheres the victory in the slaying of insects lives, who really loses, is it the other University's? NO.....WORMS Ponder and discuss amongst yaselves!

[Chowder]

Hilarious, and oh so mature as well, really belongs on a thread under the 'university' section of the board...

[the pom]

how is an import defined

how many years do you have to be at a club to no longer be an import?

if you play for a club leave and then return are you then an import?

[jivingjohn]

if you play for a club leave and then return are you then an import?

Only if you're good

[Princess]

The Durham Survival guide

Step 1: Say thank you for BUCS lacrosse. It's a privilege that's really quite new. Sheesh, you kids don't know how good you've got it!

Step 2: Say thank you for getting to play against people who actually know how to play, rather than people who think they know how to play.

Step 3: Swallow one MASSIVE man up pill

Step 4: Take your 30-0 thrashing like a man

Step 5: Discuss how to put together a training programme so next season the scoreline is 29-1


or.......

Step 1: Refuse to play Durham

Step 2: Graduate from uni

Step 3: Play SEMLA/NEMLA

Step 4: Start the same thread about Blues/Stockport because they have yanks or internationals playing for them

Step 5: Start playing Ultimate Frisbee, because their 'your kind of people'

[poopjohnson]

Much disappointment regarding the lack of avid discussion regarding the worm crisis in the UK, but more geographically speaking the Northern section of England. I guess as those yanks would say "that earth shifting topic is left for the suits in Washington". I am not of tree hugging decent but another issue that is rattling the cages of my brain is pollution, and I don't mean from the hard work of industry (Coal, Steel etc). This pollution is caused by only one thing, the rocket fuel that is burned on a daily basis is becoming quite an issue in England. Those Durham lads shell out rocket after rocket, do you fellas realize the impact this has on our ozone. My main man Benny the Gooch has recently filled me in on a little inside information; since the arrival of these Americans pollution has sky rocketed throughout the area. Now you may ask,"Poopjohnson what on earth are you talking about?" My response is merely look at the local population of Durham, wild violent, barbaric creatures who guzzle tankard after tankard of doner meat and O'Dules pints, who, even reaching the years of elder, shake violently and uncontrollably to the eery sounds of techno and rage fest tunes, while lusting themselves to any women or mini horse of their choosing. Durham has quite the haze around it these days, and no it isn't the smell of victory, its the smell of poisonous methane gas fuels expelled by the "wands" of these American wizards. Al Gore did not tell a lie when yelped in the streets that global warming was upon us, but it is from the back side of your bumpers; American Lax Bro's are to blame, a problem that if not taken seriously will exterminate wildlife as we know it. Eye opening isn't it. Talk amongst yaselves......

PS saw on some posts by you "Flowbots" you were apart of Team Jedi for lax, 1) who's you know with princess laya? 2) Def cheating using the Force while playing lax

[Notaeus]

I must admit, I've been remiss in browsing the forums recently and had a bit of catchup work to do here!

I can't say that I've ever played Durham, can't say that I ever will. My Uni can't afford to put us into BUCS, leaving the club itself to pay SEMLA league fees, £70 a day minibus hire plus fuel on top only to be thrashed in each and every game, but we do it for the love of the game. So please before whining about BUCS and deciding that the best course of action would to simply not play the games, remember that BUCS is a privilege.

Fantastic!

It may not be against the rules but it doesn't feel particularly sporting to me.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean anyone should roll over and die (aka concede) a game. Heck, maybe even get an injured player or someone who isn't playing for x, y, z reason to film the game so you can even learn more from it afterwards!

I went to Uni, like I would imagine a great deal of my counterparts, with the ambition to improve myself academically and to leave with a nice shiny degree. Not spending every waking moment training in an attempt to beat Durham. Sports comes second to academic's. I would imagine that if you spent the time required to get to a level to beat opponents with twice your experience in half the time it took them whilst at Uni then chances are you would probably fail your degree.

A short look over the Universities attended by the Durham Americans will show you that there are some very demanding academic institutions represented, and I doubt many here would argue the intensity of lacrosse training at the collegiate level in the States. One of the biggest shocks to me is the idea that there somehow would not be enough time (even given the availability of resources/field time/gym time) to even train 4 or 5 days a week because of the acadmic demands put on students by Unis.

University of Maryland
Drexel University
Haverford University
Amherst College
Kenyon College
and others besides

As for the "they are Uni students too" argument, this may be true but they are also at the top of the hill. It takes a hell of a lot more hard-work to get up that hill than sitting at the top of it, hard-work and resources I doubt very few if any, students and AU's are able/willing to put in!

This is the statement that teams should be upset at themselves for expressing/seeing in teammates…

… hard work and resources I doubt very few if any students are able/willing to put in.

Where there’s a will there’s a way. Granted not to win, but to practice more and elevate one’s own game? Undeniably.

And finally the development argument, is it really helping Lacrosse develop? It certainally appears that it is helping Durham and the surronding area improve. However what about the bigger picture, what it looks like to me is that Durham have decided that Lacrosse is something they want to excel in and build a reputation in. Which is, of course fair enough however it looks and sounds like they have simply placed a unscalable brick wall in front of any team, in effect removing any competition from a competition. We all know this year was a forgone conclusion over who the winner was.
So does this lack of competition means that development will suffer overall? Will this stop other Uni's helping develop their Lacrosse Clubs, will they see Durham easily winning over their team and decide maybe that funding could be better spent elsewhere? In effect holding other teams back. Who knows but I'm not convinced Durham is helping the bigger picture for the development of Lacrosse, certainly at University Level.

Does Durham owe anything to the greater lacrosse community? If they are building the level of play in and around their university, are they obligated by anything to extend beyond that? Do they owe BUCS anything besides participation in the proscribed games?

I see your point, judging by Durham's case it would be players from div 1,2 and 3, but yes, even in this the caliber of player can differ massively, plus there is Junior college and high school. I guess they could research a players individual stats perhaps?..

I foresee such a dearth of consistency in any evaluation of this type that it would be entirely unfeasible. Would you rank a bench warmer from Duke University (last years NCAA champs) as more or less valuable than a 2 year starter from a mid-range D 2/3 university?
The bench player will have fewer stats, but *arguably* will have been playing against tougher competition given that day in and day out at practice he will have been practicing against the best team in the nation that year. Who has the better credentials?

My main man Fuzzy Slippers has reported to me that Durham now trains with Ronny Coleman, ultimate American Power lifter. This is supremely unfair on so many levels. Fuzzy also reported to me that during training sessions it has been documented that the use of goat urine has been implemented for ultimate levels of hydration. While most people go blind from such an act, it appears the intense training from Ronny Coleman has thwarted any such happenings.

They didn’t go blind?! I too had heard about this and was hoping the side effects would allow someone to beat them! Perhaps I could suggest to them a larger mammal in the hopes that Mr. Coleman’s miraculous circumventing of the blindness might be thwarted. Do you think he’d go for giving them each a pint of Horse or Cow? I’m sure with all the countryside in Durham he could squeeze some juice out of a few of them!

I think the key issue we need to focus on when speaking about this travesty is the overall impact this has on the worm population in England as a whole. With the lasers and rockets flying around "wizzing" over these poor insects homes many are left wondering where to next?

I had always assumed if Mr. Sieverts let out any more rockets that the RAF would be called in to control the situation. And as it is, I believe he has been cast in a new movie after a few of his “Thunderbolts” actually traveled all the way to Hollywood and caught a few eyes. The link below is my proof. Having never seen him myself, I can only assume it is him…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=merRJOLaB6k

[Notaeus]

I scarcely know where to begin my Pond Hopping friend…

Much disappointment regarding the lack of avid discussion regarding the worm crisis in the UK, but more geographically speaking the Northern section of England. I guess as those yanks would say "that earth shifting topic is left for the suits in Washington".

Until we have to contend with the Worms of Dune, I don’t think there will be much discussion on this field…

Now you may ask,"Poopjohnson what on earth are you talking about?" My response is merely look at the local population of Durham, wild violent, barbaric creatures who guzzle tankard after tankard of doner meat and O'Dules pints, who, even reaching the years of elder, shake violently and uncontrollably to the eery sounds of techno and rage fest tunes, while lusting themselves to any women or mini horse of their choosing. Durham has quite the haze around it these days, and no it isn't the smell of victory, its the smell of poisonous methane gas fuels expelled by the "wands" of these American wizards.

I assure you, Mrs. Rowling has taught us quite well on how to deal with wizards. Perhaps a Gandalf shall emerge to slay the mighty Balrog that is Durham and say “You shall not pass!”
(I do so hope I am not the only one who gets these references…)

PS saw on some posts by you "Flowbots" you were apart of Team Jedi for lax, 1) who's you know with princess laya? 2) Def cheating using the Force while playing lax

Polite to hit it and tell, it is not… And her name is Leia.

[Freddie]

Just out of interest regarding the whole academic side of things, does anyone know if it is difficult to get onto a master program at Durham. I have a friend who did the same masters in Business and Finance but had a 2.1 in History from Durham. I only ask as I've had a look at this Sieverts Chap and he 'majored' in Marketing Logistics and Transportation & Supply Chain Management. If you ask me, that sounds like a complete joke of degree and one that I wouldn't imagine Durham would normally take into consideration.

[ScottStorey]

Just out of interest regarding the whole academic side of things, does anyone know if it is difficult to get onto a master program at Durham. I have a friend who did the same masters in Business and Finance but had a 2.1 in History from Durham. I only ask as I've had a look at this Sieverts Chap and he 'majored' in Marketing Logistics and Transportation & Supply Chain Management. If you ask me, that sounds like a complete joke of degree and one that I wouldn't imagine Durham would normally take into consideration.

Having a look at the Durham site it's the same as most other unis. 2:1 in a relevant undergrad degree but they do consider other degrees and work experience.

Exact same masters requirements at hallam.

[Notaeus]

Just out of interest regarding the whole academic side of things, does anyone know if it is difficult to get onto a master program at Durham. I have a friend who did the same masters in Business and Finance but had a 2.1 in History from Durham. I only ask as I've had a look at this Sieverts Chap and he 'majored' in Marketing Logistics and Transportation & Supply Chain Management. If you ask me, that sounds like a complete joke of degree and one that I wouldn't imagine Durham would normally take into consideration.

The following is courtesy of a few minutes using Google and Wikipedia… Each University is “quoted” separately to make it easier to read.

Durham is in the Top 3 Universities (including English, History, Education Studies and Non-European Languages) for Archaeology, Anthropology, Chemistry, French, General Engineering, Geography, Iberian Languages, Italian, Philosophy, Physics & Astronomy, Theology & Religious Studies;
Durham is in the Top 5 Universities (including former mentioned subjects) for Biological Sciences, German, Classics & Ancient History, Law, Mathematics, Middle Eastern & African Studies, Performing Arts, Russian & East European Languages, Social Work, Sociology, Sports Science;
Durham is in the Top 10 Universities (including former mentioned subjects) for Accounting & Finance, Asian Studies, Business, Geology, Human & Social Geography, Linguistics, Medicine, Music, Politics.
World rankings of universities have placed Durham as follows:

The Times Higher Education World University Rankings place Durham 85 in the world in 2010.
The QS World University Rankings place Durham 92 in the world in 2010.

Nicely done, old chap.

"The University of Maryland is ranked 56th in the latest 2011 U.S. News and World Report rankings of "National Universities" across the United States, and it is ranked 12th nationally among public universities. 29 undergraduate and graduate programs are ranked in the top 10 and 90 programs are in the top 25.
The Academic Ranking of World Universities compiled by the Shanghai Jiao Tong University ranked Maryland as 36th in the world as well as 8th among public flagship universities in the United States. Newsweek ranked the University of Maryland as 45th in their ranking "global universities." In 2010 QS World University Rankings ranked the university 104th overall in the world."

92 vs 104 according to QS... what a world of difference. How could Durham NOT turn their noses up at a degree from Maryland University?

This made me interested enough to do the same for some of the other Americans…

Coach Michael McTernan – majored in business from Drexel University

In 2010, Times Higher Education World University Rankings placed Drexel 190th in the World and 76th in North America. The university also was placed among 96-98 best universities in the world according to the Russian based Global University Ranking.
Drexel is currently in a period of the fastest rise in term of rankings. In 2011, U.S. News & World Report has ranked Drexel 86th among all universities of the United States, and 2nd on the U.S. News & World Report "Best Colleges: Up-and-coming National Universities" ranking . The 2009 and 2010 rankings placed Drexel 88th among all universities of the United States, 48th among the best 50 private universities in the country, and 4th on the U.S. News & World Report "Up-and-coming National Universities" ranking . The 2008 rankings placed Drexel 108th, whereas 2006 rankings had the school at 109th. Drexel and the University of Pennsylvania are the only Philadelphia colleges in this category.
In 2007, Business Week ranked the undergraduate business program among the top 30 private institutions in the country. The 2009 rankings rate the LeBow business program as the 38th best in the nation. The Princeton Review also named Drexel 6th on their list of "2010 Top Entrepreneurial Programs: Undergraduate.”

Adam Szczepanski – goalie, Majored in Economics and Public Policy at Kenyon College

he 2005 Princeton Review and Fiske Guide to Colleges 2005 awarded the college top academic ratings. In addition, in 2006 Newsweek selected Kenyon College as one of twenty-five "New Ivies" on the basis of admissions statistics as well as interviews with administrators, students, faculty and alumni. Since June 2007, Kenyon College has chosen not to participate in the US News and World Report's college ranking list. In 2009, Forbes Magazine, ranked Kenyon #22 out of the 600 colleges and universities on its list of America's Best Colleges 2009.

Pete Hannapel – faceoff midfielder, majored in Political Science at Haverford College

Known for its rigorous academics and resistance to grade inflation, Haverford has been described as "quietly prestigious." It placed ninth in the U.S. News and World Report rankings of U.S. liberal arts colleges in 2010 and is commonly known as one of the "Little Ivies".

Kyle Standiford – defenseman, majored in psychology at Amherst College

Since the inception of the U.S. News & World Report rankings, Amherst College has been ranked at least ten times as the first overall amongst 266 liberal arts colleges in the United States, and is currently ranked second, behind Williams. In 2010, Forbes ranked Amherst College as the third best college or university in the United States, ahead of MIT, Stanford University, Caltech and every Ivy League institution except Princeton University. Amherst ranked as having the second-highest graduation rate of any institution in the United States, second only to Harvard according to a 2009 American Enterprise Institute Study.

Clearly, Durham is reaching to the bottom of the barrel for these boys and giving them substantial amounts of leeway to even let them be taking classes here…

[petegriffin]

Just out of interest regarding the whole academic side of things, does anyone know if it is difficult to get onto a master program at Durham. I have a friend who did the same masters in Business and Finance but had a 2.1 in History from Durham. I only ask as I've had a look at this Sieverts Chap and he 'majored' in Marketing Logistics and Transportation & Supply Chain Management. If you ask me, that sounds like a complete joke of degree and one that I wouldn't imagine Durham would normally take into consideration.

How unnecessarily disrespectful. Ridiculous.

[fresher309]

Just out of interest regarding the whole academic side of things, does anyone know if it is difficult to get onto a master program at Durham. I have a friend who did the same masters in Business and Finance but had a 2.1 in History from Durham. I only ask as I've had a look at this Sieverts Chap and he 'majored' in Marketing Logistics and Transportation & Supply Chain Management. If you ask me, that sounds like a complete joke of degree and one that I wouldn't imagine Durham would normally take into consideration.

How unnecessarily disrespectful. Ridiculous.

Freddie is an idiot sometimes..... Why dont we ask him what degree he got? I believe it'll be an interesting answer!

As for supposed joke courses, brum offered ' Golf Management' why? Because it was a way for all the amazing golf players to learn about being a pro at a club/course. Very situational, but for a chosen career probably the best degree they could choose, thus allowing them to potentially study a masters/mba at a later date.