Get to Know ArchLevel Lacrosse

[VinceGrimes]

Wildcat,

I wouldn't say "in bed". Maybe holding hands? The occasional high five? It's very new, and special, and we still get butterflies when we talk about it.

As for a real answer, the ELA were the first governing body that we contacted regarding endorsement when we first started up since England is where we were conducting all of our "business" so to speak. Coincidently, because we are successfully growing, we are currently putting together proposals for both Scotland Lacrosse and The Welsh Lacrosse Association for endorsement and will hopefully start working with these organizations as well very soon.

PS: The new main site is now live! Head on over to www.archlevellacrosse.com and you guys will see the new design and info. Let us know what you think! Tons of plans are on the list and a lot of new info will be updated on a daily basis through the next couple of weeks until we get it right where we want it. All opinions are welcomed!

[wildcat]

I think that the archlevel report doesn't require 'endorsement' to report news/run features.
And you do talk about the 'UK' in a few of your posts on laxforums!

[Phil201]

Just been on your website and it all looks good. Had a look at the camps you are aiming to do and the prices you give are below

Pricing Information
- Minimum of 15 players is required
- 15 to 19 players = 35/player
- 20+ players = 25/player

Do you realistically think that people can afford this?? I was involved in the hull university team for 3 years and I can guarentee that out of the 30 committed consistent members, i reckon 5 people would be interested in paying them prices. Thoughts???

[Nikon]

Just been on your website and it all looks good. Had a look at the camps you are aiming to do and the prices you give are below

Pricing Information
- Minimum of 15 players is required
- 15 to 19 players = 35/player
- 20+ players = 25/player

Do you realistically think that people can afford this?? I was involved in the hull university team for 3 years and I can guarentee that out of the 30 committed consistent members, i reckon 5 people would be interested in paying them prices. Thoughts???

Thats not even a night out anymore. Stop being cheap.

[petegriffin]

Just been on your website and it all looks good. Had a look at the camps you are aiming to do and the prices you give are below

Pricing Information
- Minimum of 15 players is required
- 15 to 19 players = 35/player
- 20+ players = 25/player

Do you realistically think that people can afford this?? I was involved in the hull university team for 3 years and I can guarentee that out of the 30 committed consistent members, i reckon 5 people would be interested in paying them prices. Thoughts???

If you wnated to enter any sort of tournament taking into account transport you wouldn't get it for that, Instead you get 4 hours+ of coaching and valuable resources for the year.

People who've had to run uni training sessions before would probably pay £35 for the materials alone....

[the pom]

Just been on your website and it all looks good. Had a look at the camps you are aiming to do and the prices you give are below

Pricing Information
- Minimum of 15 players is required
- 15 to 19 players = 35/player
- 20+ players = 25/player

Do you realistically think that people can afford this?? I was involved in the hull university team for 3 years and I can guarentee that out of the 30 committed consistent members, i reckon 5 people would be interested in paying them prices. Thoughts???

Thats not even a night out anymore. Stop being cheap.

its only the first couple of hours of a night out

[gazmanofhull]

I think the point of the post is that with Archlevel branching into Fresher's Camps - how can you expect new plaers to spend on all the equipment they need to play the sport AND on top of that get them to pay to go on a freshers lacrosse camp. It is slightly unrealistic. Individual institutions could pay out £50-£100 to get a coach in or the day to do this rather than on-site to there freshers.

[Nikon]

I think the point of the post is that with Archlevel branching into Fresher's Camps - how can you expect new plaers to spend on all the equipment they need to play the sport AND on top of that get them to pay to go on a freshers lacrosse camp. It is slightly unrealistic. Individual institutions could pay out £50-£100 to get a coach in or the day to do this rather than on-site to there freshers.

It looks like you've found the fatal flaw in Arch Levels plan. Who needs 'em. Take the money you've saved and piss off to the pub. Everyones a winner.

[VinceGrimes]

Now we have some discussion! Let's see if I can field some of these questions/comments.

So the original comment that started all of the money talk was from Phil201 saying:

Just been on your website and it all looks good. Had a look at the camps you are aiming to do and the prices you give are below

Pricing Information
- Minimum of 15 players is required
- 15 to 19 players = 35/player
- 20+ players = 25/player

Do you realistically think that people can afford this?? I was involved in the hull university team for 3 years and I can guarantee that out of the 30 committed consistent members, i reckon 5 people would be interested in paying them prices. Thoughts???

First, these prices are for the University Custom Team Clinics (a point I bring up because Freshers were mentioned in a later post; but we'll get to that one soon enough). The honest answer to your question is...I do. With saying that, I am also aware of the many options out there for teams to raise money, apply for, or have it paid through their budget with their relative AU or SU. We held several of the University Clinics last season all with great success; none of which caused an issue on the "money for value" side of things. The cost per player is a figure to calculate cost of the event dependent on size of the team. This does not necessarily mean that the "player" will be paying these fees. We held 5 University clinics last season; all of which were paid for by the AU or SU on behalf of the team.

Now with that said, not all teams have access to these types of funds; an average size team can run around 500 pounds for one of these types of clinics. This is why we wanted to give back to the community as well by giving away two free clinics last season with which we plan on doing the same if not more in every season in the future. We are just as much about giving back to the community as "taking from it" as many would say about our humble operation at this time.

As far as cost to benefit ratio; a 4 hour clinic, free giveaways, a custom playbook for your team, specific curriculum for your team's needs, all delivered by quality professionals that ensure the experience just as much as the x's and o's...all for a possible 25 pounds a head; it might just be me but I would have killed for that margin growing up! Also, when you factor in overhead for materials, coaches pay, value of free giveaways, and general planning and executing of these types of clinics it adds up quick. And if someone can find a way to do it all for less than that and still make a profit let me know...because I will hands down give you a job on the spot.

Now, as for Gazmanofhull's comment

I think the point of the post is that with Archlevel branching into Fresher's Camps - how can you expect new players to spend on all the equipment they need to play the sport AND on top of that get them to pay to go on a freshers lacrosse camp. It is slightly unrealistic. Individual institutions could pay out £50-£100 to get a coach in or the day to do this rather than on-site to there freshers.

I'm not sure if we were mixing and matching costs here with these comments, but, the costs that were posted above pertained to the University Custom Team Clinics. The Fresher Clinics are something different entirely. The Fresher Clinics were developed after we saw the need for development of new players within University teams throughout the years; and the difficulties of balancing the progression between them and experienced players that weighed on the almost always "player coach". We loved the idea of the Fresher Tournaments that SEMLA organized, however, we wanted to concentrate on the development of the players more than the "getting them games" aspect; SEMLA was doing a great job organizing those on their own. So we developed the Fresher Clinics that will be geared specifically towards the player's development and learning of the game. The cost for these clinics will be only 10 pounds a head. We have already had over 200 players "vouched for" by 7 different universities based on their expected Fresher intake from the previous years and the budget they will have leading into this upcoming season.

And lastly, as for Nikon's comment. Not sure who Nikon is, but if that was sarcasm...well played sir. If not...sad panda.

[Phil201]

For all the comments about me being cheap.

I am speaking from experience of being a student playing for both a BUCS team and a NEMLA team week in week out. I was the only player to play all the fixtures for both teams. One of the big reasons for this was cost.

An example of the costs of a player in my situation.
Monday training - £2
Tuesday Training - £2
Wedensday bucs match - £15 (travel, match fee and food)
Saturday Nemla match - £15 (travel, match fee and food)
Sunday Training - £2

That is £36 a week for at least 15 weeks which equals = £540

Then there is the £25 joining fee for the AU for the university team and the £60 joining fee for the Nemla team. Also so many players join while at uni so are probably spending 100quid on kit.

I was lucky that I had a job through uni where some people do not. So an extra 25quid or 35quid for a coaching session makes the sport even more expensive.

[Nikon]

For all the comments about me being cheap.

I am speaking from experience of being a student playing for both a BUCS team and a NEMLA team week in week out. I was the only player to play all the fixtures for both teams. One of the big reasons for this was cost.

An example of the costs of a player in my situation.
Monday training - £2
Tuesday Training - £2
Wedensday bucs match - £15 (travel, match fee and food)
Saturday Nemla match - £15 (travel, match fee and food)
Sunday Training - £2

That is £36 a week for at least 15 weeks which equals = £540

Then there is the £25 joining fee for the AU for the university team and the £60 joining fee for the Nemla team. Also so many players join while at uni so are probably spending 100quid on kit.

I was lucky that I had a job through uni where some people do not. So an extra 25quid or 35quid for a coaching session makes the sport even more expensive.

I bet you spent more on beer after each game though Everything costs money, what ya gonna do?

[Dining Room]

Base it on the NHS - free at the point of use (but with higher taxes, ie Subs to the ELA to fund things)

If you are serious about being a better played you will consider programmes like this. Most people aren't so that's fine, as the sport gets bigger the market for people choosing to take a step up make themselves better will also grow. Have you seen Nike, Adidas, Reebok all enter the market in the US in recent years? Why now? BEFORE IT GETS TOO BIG TO ENTER or the incumbent supplier to large to buy out!! This is exactly what ArchLevel from a coaching perspective but on a smaller scale for a smaller sport that they can grow with. Smart cookies in my book! They are setting up the network early which will buy more and more over time.

[UKLaxfan]

I can see Phil's point of view and he shouldn't be castigated for it, he has a right to an opinion.

I had similar views when a women's camp was starting up at £50-60 for 4hrs and caught flak for it

It isn't the cost that is important but the value

If a Camp is bespoke for your team and there is after sales service such as support and Coaching advice then it may be of great value

if they are only after the money and keeping you busy for a few hours running around then there is not much value

after that it is a case of supply and demand

if they are good they will succeed if they are not they won't

speak to people who have been involved with previous camps training session and get feedback.

What I've heard back so far on ArchLevel has been positive

[Phil]

I'm relatively new to the game of lacrosse (having started late November) but next year have the position of 'Men's Fresher Liason' at Nottingham Trent University, for what that's worth. Subsequently I have read this thread and am currently working the the ELA Website thread with interest.

I've not really got much to contribute but just wanted to say I think what you guys are Archlevel Lacrosse are trying or do (or at least, what I think you are trying to do..) is great and I wish you every success with it. Without trying to discount generations of current players I absolute agree, with you, that it's fundimentaly important to get 'youngsters' into the game if it's going to grow and develop [further] in the UK.

As a waffley, perhaps not relevant, story: I was up in the Highlands with my Dad back in May where they play shinty. I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with the sport(?) but it's a bit like hockey with the physicality of lacrosse. I'm also lead to believe it was playing shinty on ice that bore Ice Hockey, but that could just be some tat they spun to the tourist. Anyway, we went to watch a game (which turned out to be two, as a second/youth(ish) team played beforehand) and it was fantastic. Pretty much the whole community turned out to watch it (cultural game in the highlands, granted) with support ranging from new borns to 80+.. what was really good to see, though, was at half time all the kids went out and played with the pitch for fun and learning the game. It wasn't structured, and certainly wasn't controlled, but was just kids wanting the be like the players they had just watched. That in my, highly humble and equally unqualified, opinion seems to be what is missing form Lacrosse, outside of Manchester. A bit of chit chat with the locals suggested shinty was on the rise and return in big numbers, not just in the highlands but further south too. I've since wondered if the ELA could learn and lessons from shinty's, apparent revival? (... without trying to be unfairly critical of the ELA).

I fear I have perhaps done that incredibly frustrating thing where I am just pointing out problems and, appearing to, moan without offering any solutions? If I have, I apologise, it wasn't intended. Anyway, all the best Archlevel Lacrosse - I'll be keeping an eye on your activities to see how and where you can help our university club develop and, likewise, where we can be of an assistance to you in achieving your appropriately ambitious mission.

(Being new to the game I am well aware all of the above can be dismissed by the phrase 'he knows two tenths of f*ck all', but perhaps some of it may be relevant?)

Phil